Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

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Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:12 am

Not sure if anyone here follows Cygnus Destroyer/The LJN Defender, but he just did a video on Sonic the Hedgehog '06 for anyone interested.

So why not post this in the Completionist thread? A few reasons, one of which being that it wasn't meant to devolve into mudslinging at online reviewers, but I wanted people to discuss the points about Sonic Heroes. Same deal here. No need to muddy the water there.

That said, let's do that for '06 here and leave any further online reviewer stuff in the other thread (though I'd really just rather people make their own thread in BumbleKourt if they want to discuss that topic). I reserve the right to delete any conversation that strays from the topic like that here.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby Mordum » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:36 am

I'm like four minutes in.

He started off explaining that Sonic 06 was a radical departure from previous games in the series, and just said the the Genesis gameplay was "gone in favor of" the Adventure-style gameplay, which is a really weird way to frame this sequence of thoughts. Like, which is it? Is the game some radical departure, or does it just organically flow from where the games were at that time? And why, in the context of the modern games when discussing the (then) latest modern game, would he discuss 06's gameplay by opening with the Genesis gameplay being tossed aside when there is no context possible where that was the standard at the time?

I also find it odd that he describes himself as "confused" by the opening, as if the basic narrative conceit of introducing, but not yet explaining, concepts that will form the basis of a plot is somehow overwhelming thing to him. The story setting its stage and then naming concepts is confusing for him, even though it's maybe a minute or two long cutscene or whatever.

So four minutes in and the public school system has failed us, but it's New Years Eve and I don't really drink, so my self loathing will be sustained by watching the rest. Maybe he'll eat a hammer by accident because he thinks it's frogurt.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby Unknownshadow675 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:01 am

The game was probably the most ambitious Sonic game to date. The game is terrible, but there's still a lot to like about Sonic 06.

And it's better than Shadow The Hedgehog. So that's also a plus. I'm glad Sonic 06 made Shadow actually watchable again.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby Mordum » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:46 am

Unknownshadow675 wrote:The game was probably the most ambitious Sonic game to date. The game is terrible, but there's still a lot to like about Sonic 06.

And it's better than Shadow The Hedgehog. So that's also a plus. I'm glad Sonic 06 made Shadow actually watchable again.


I'd quibble a bit on the ambition. It's notably three less character stories than Adventure. It also doesn't have the morality of Shadow the Hedgehog. I think, in terms of scope and cast, 06 represents a huge back-to-basics approach.

It does succeed where the other games fail, wherein it actually tells a story that's actually kind of about Sonic, but I think its approach is actually one of the less ambitious games in terms of both story AND gameplay.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:30 pm

I found that video pretty lame, but ok, that's not the point of this thread.

My brief view:
Is Sonic 06 a bad game? Yes. I didn't got those bad grades for swearing in class. There is plenty wrong with the game and listing it would be waste of time.
Is it as bad as people say: No. It's definitely not "the worst game of all times", not even "worst big game...". If anything it might be "most disappointing".

Longer explanation: This game feels like something I would try to make. I want serious story, I want plenty playable characters. Make it bigger, make it epic-er. (more epic, whatever). That probably killed game at start. SA1 had 6 play styles and most of them lacked polish. It couldn't work here. But let's face it, even with everything super polished, there were stupid ideas. Someone though that making hub or speed sections were good idea. Elise gets kidnapped like 5 times and no one though there is anything wrong with that.
But like I said, it feels like game I would make, so it's hard for me to hate it. Story has flaws, but I do like many elements from it (Shadow, Silver, Mephiles). I don't even hate Elise. There is a way to reinterpret her in more interesting ways and while I don't support shipping her with Sonic, I really don't mind possibility of human/mobian relation. (But that thread was closed by mods, so I'm shutting up now). With plots like Boom and Lost World I kinda miss those more complicated stories of the past.
With right set of mind gameplay can be enjoyed and this is only 3D Sonic game where all characters go through the levels to goal ring, not fish, shoot from mechs or look for emerald shards. And of course there is music.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:37 pm

MetalSkulkBane wrote:Someone though that making hub or speed sections were good idea.


personally I like hub worlds, I tend to find games that have them more memorable
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby RaceProUK » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:22 pm

MetalSkulkBane wrote:Someone though that making hub or speed sections were good idea.
Hub worlds work when they're sizeable and interesting, or compact and quick to navigate; the '06 hub worlds are neither (they're too large and have almost nothing in them). As an example, the hub worlds in Unleashed work a lot better; they're smaller, and have more stuff in them.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby lalalei2001 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:08 pm

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8612

Just a heads-up, i made an Internet reviewers thread on the Bumblekourt so these threads won't get clogged.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:42 pm

Ok, Hubs are double edge sword. On one hand they can create context, make game more memorable and give feeling that word is more alive. I actually liked SA1 hub when I was a kid, since it gave feeling of realism.
But nowadays I feel like it slow pace. And in 06 someone thought that massive, boring looking hubs were good idea.
Does anyone think that 06 or Rise of Lyric would be worse without hubs?

lalalei2001 wrote:http://www.bumbleking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8612

Just a heads-up, i made an Internet reviewers thread on the Bumblekourt so these threads won't get clogged.


I'm not sure if this is needed. The completionist topic already talks a lot about it.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:56 pm

I dont think the 06 hubs are that big but to be fair, they would probably be more tolerable if you didnt have to hit a tedious loading screen every time you moved between them
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby DudestofGuys » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:01 pm

A good hub gives you stuff to explore, but also lets you warp to anything important or pull up a menu to access content more quickly.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:03 pm

MetalSkulkBane wrote:
lalalei2001 wrote:http://www.bumbleking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8612

Just a heads-up, i made an Internet reviewers thread on the Bumblekourt so these threads won't get clogged.


I'm not sure if this is needed. The completionist topic already talks a lot about it.


Plus everytime a thread like that's made it dies pretty fast.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby faceclams » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:38 pm

I don't hate 06, it was my first Sonic game after all. But I don't think "well the bugs are pretty funny sometimes" should count as a pro of any game. I can see how you can derive enjoyment from glitches the way you'd watch a "so bad it's good" movie, but it's kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel when you argue it's a redeeming point.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby Specs64z » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:13 pm

Never played it personally, but from lets plays and the legendary glitch fest 4 part special, I'd say it's guilty.

As for hub worlds, I don't like those in platformers. Hub worlds are for action-adventure and RPGs, a mon avis. Stage by stage is where it's at.

... but let's be honest. Sonic Drift is the REAL worst Sonic game of all time.
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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty: Sonic '06

Postby faceclams » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:30 pm

Specs64z wrote:... but let's be honest. Sonic Drift is the REAL worst Sonic game of all time.


Worse than Sonic's Schoolhouse? :P
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