Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby BlazeHeatnix » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:08 pm

3 years ago everyone on this forum liked Scourge and was legitimately upset he got written out of the comic. Now everyone thinks he was always horrible and nobody liked him? What the @#$% is going on here?
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby Penguin God » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:16 pm

People said this stuff back when Scourge was around, but nobody is saying that nobody liked Scourge. Scourge was fun, and a large part of that was being a terrible fan-character idea who was totally wrapped up in his identity as a bad knockoff. He was an edgy recolor hedgehog who was totally cooler than Sonic, and his arc was about his insecurity over not being the original.
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby BlazeHeatnix » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:43 pm

Penguin God wrote:People said this stuff back when Scourge was around, but nobody is saying that nobody liked Scourge.


Village wrote:Here's the thing, no one likes him. Everyone hates, him, everyone. At some point everyone realized what was and him being around, made everyone better characters in general.


Also, I don't understand praising Scourge for being a terrible fan character idea and running with it, when that almost certainly wasn't the writer's intent. Scourge, for all intents and purposes, was a character that was supposed to be interesting and likable for what he is, like Shadow was written to be, not because he's a parody of what fans do. I highly doubt he was ever "supposed to be bad". Of course, Ian could easily pop in and say that was his idea all along and say I'm wrong, but if it were, why was he written as someone to take seriously, instead of the butt of all jokes ala Drago?
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby Penguin God » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:56 pm

A character can be parodical and legitimate at the same time. Scourge's whole character arc hinged on him being a sort of lazy concept that was also aware of that fact. You can say that was a knock on fan characters or on lazy universe cliches, but they end up as the same thing. Even Village there is noting that he was a good character because of his badness.
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby The Loose Cannon » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:56 pm

-I can't remember if it was scrapped or if it was info that was in the old Sonic blogs but in Dark Mobius, Enerjak at one point was close with Fiona (Payback Fox) but she used him or something like that.
-On Ken's board, he said his version of #166-167 still had King Shadow but this time, him and Sally had their own children. I don't know any more details than that outside of Shadow being included at the request of an editor and his plans with King Sonic for that story as discussed earlier in this thread.

Image
-This was from a preview in #20 of Princess Sally #1. There's other unused covers in the ads that was going to be a trilogy cover like the Knuckles series. There were two different pitches of the miniseries as Dan Drazen posted what Ken said here http://www.andrews.edu/~drazen/MiniSal.txt

-We would have seen the Dragon Freedom Fighters and would resemble Furious Five of Kung Fu Panda.
-In Sonic Archives #11, it was revealed in concept art that Pseduo-Sonic was originally going to be called Anti-Sonic.
-Tig Stripes of the original Freedom Fighters coming back in The Darkest Storm being freed from The Void
-In the script bits, the original plot of #165 had Sonic and Rouge encounter Issac only to find he's corrupt. This concept was somewhat used in the same issue but was revealed it was Rouge and Doc Finn that encountered Issac.
-Wynn would have been one of the casualties (or captive) of the Egg Grapes during the events of Return to Angel Island. Locke would help raise Mace with Lara-Le. No word on if he would be microwaved but since he was not an egg, he missed his chance. (hearty laughter)
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby Penguin God » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:20 am

King Shadow and Sally having children is...easily the worst possible idea you could do with that. Good lord. And then kill off Wynmacher to get Locke and Lara-Le back together is destroying the one unintentionally interesting and complicated relationship he ever wrote. I know that talking about how bad that writer can be gets tiring after a while, but I swear it's like he tries to think up new lows to lower himself to.
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby Gonzo » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:08 am

Penguin God wrote:King Shadow and Sally having children is...easily the worst possible idea you could do with that. Good lord.

I dunno; you could potentially get some decent storytelling out of that (examining the no doubt immense timeline changes that would lead to such a thing, Sally and Shadow's hopefully much-better relationship that resulted from said changes, what kind of lives the offspring of the Ultimate Lifeform would lead, etc), but...this IS Penders we're talking about.

What's confusing me is that the suggestion to use King Shadow was Penders's last straw. So where did the willingness to use him after all come from? Or was his real last straw the rejection of the first draft to come to mind (I imagine that Penders was not in the best mood at the time)?
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby FritzyBeat » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:56 am

Just gonna say, I still totally love Scourge to this day, he was one of the most exciting characters to see go head to head with Sonic, not only cause the fights were awesome, but also due to the whole principle between them. The moment they had that talk after Fiona betrayed them, just did wonders at defining his character.

Scourge: As for you... I've got you figured out! I know why you hate me (...) It's that all it takes is one bad day, and you'd be just like me.
Sonic: No, that's not it, Scourge. It's because all it would take is a bit of selflessness... a little bit of decency... and you'd be just like me.


from that moment, it was Scourge's goal to separate himself from Sonic as much as possible, from obliterating his own world, to attempting to do the same to Sonic's, to... well, treating everyone including Fiona like crap. As Much as Sonic often thought about Scourge's words to him, Scourge dreaded the thought of ever being compared to Sonic again, and he became obsessed with redefining himself, and his world, as its own entity.

That was interesting, and that was awesome.

jazzflower92 wrote:You know the coolest moment featuring Scourge is when Sonic's dad, Jules, gives him a verbal beat down calling him out as a coward and making him run away crying.

^all of this. That was one of my favorite moments in the original comic's run, it revealed so much about Scourge's character, and made Jules ultra awesome to the max, with him completely talking Scourge down to defend his son.
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby Mobotropolis » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:59 pm

I also liked Sonic backhanding him after tricking him into powering down. :P

But yeah I agree with you. I loved the character, and I loved the dynamic between him and Sonic.

So where did the willingness to use him after all come from?

Guess: It might be less about the concept and more about how he wanted to use the concept.

Giving Sally and Shadow kids makes the issue of dethroning him kind of prickly. Shadow was evil but he was also a father and had a family. If Sonic booted him off the throne, imprisoned him, and/or took Sally away from him he'd may look like a savior to some but a jerk to others. And then there's the option of either Sonic trying to live with the way things are or starting a revolution and ultimately failing because of his age -- but none of those I'd imagine would be acceptable.

In the rewrite Sonic is removing a tyrant from power and saving Sally from her loveless political marriage and they have babies ever after. The story started with Sonic down on his luck but ended on a happier note as is the theme and expectation with Sonic stories.

I mean ... sure Sonic could liberate the world from Shadow and decide to raise the kids himself, but I can just hear the scream of " YOU'RE NOT MY DAD! " from Shadow Junior before the arch is even penned.

Ken has hinted that in one of them Sally and Bunnie would have carried on like Thelma and Louise.

... and that's another bullet dodged.
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby ReifuTD » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:43 pm

Wasn't there a scrapped idea of making Sally's mother a sewer mutant, What would be a fun concept to see, one of the running concepts that has been focused on in Archie Sonic is Body Horror with stuff like focusing people to become cyborgs. Mutantion and genetic manipulation is another side of the same coin witch was something the comic was just starting to touch upon with Thrash before the Reboot.
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby DabigRG » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:39 pm

Penguin God wrote:And then kill off Wynmacher to get Locke and Lara-Le back together is destroying the one unintentionally interesting and complicated relationship he ever wrote. I know that talking about how bad that writer can be gets tiring after a while, but I swear it's like he tries to think up new lows to lower himself to.

I gonna defend Penders by noting that was Bollers! He wrote RTAI and planned on killin both Wynmacher and Saffron.

Now, if Penders came up with the original concept, then thats another story.
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:51 pm

BlazeHeatnix wrote:3 years ago everyone on this forum liked Scourge and was legitimately upset he got written out of the comic. Now everyone thinks he was always horrible and nobody liked him? What the @#$% is going on here?


It's called hindsight. At first people were just glad something new was done with Evil Sonic but on review even his alteration isn't that great.
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby Mobotropolis » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:35 pm

Have to remember that Bumbleking represents a small (but incredibly vocal) amount of the book's fanbase, and that many users left after realizing that things were not going to be the same after the Reboot.
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby FritzyBeat » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:55 am

Mobotropolis wrote:Have to remember that Bumbleking represents a small (but incredibly vocal) amount of the book's fanbase, and that many users left after realizing that things were not going to be the same after the Reboot.

Hmm, actually that's true. It's very likely that a lot of the people who liked the old continuity the most left this forum when the old continuity ended (heck, I nearly did myself... then I came back XD *shot*) So that leaves more people on the forum here who like the new continuity better than the old one~

I never thought of it like that, but it does make sense =)
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Re: Unused and Scrapped Archie Sonic Comic Ideas

Postby GentlemanX » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:13 am

Oh, we're discussing this here too? If anyone's interested I literally just talked about this.

I've thought about leaving many a time, but haven't. There's no doubt that my posting habits have changed quite a bit from those days though (there was a time I actually talked about individual issues).
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