The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby Ryu The Weredragon » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:46 pm

DabigRG wrote:Im still of the mind that Hershey is/was dead and that design probably would have been used to show exactly what happened to her. Plus, weren't the Sourmerca cameo's in SU 37 and StH 237( its solicit anyway) debunked anyway?


I--- didn't say it had anything to do with the Soumerca thing. <_<

I imagined it'd be her having finished her mission and running across Sonic and getting answers. And then being rightfully ticked at ANOTHER man in her life having lied to her and used her.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby NiTROACTiVE » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:58 pm

RyuTheWeredragon wrote:
Kureejii Lea wrote:I don't think it would really hurt anything, though I'm gonna say in advance, I don't have the files onhand to show and they're probably rough and bleh anyway. =P Essentially, they were some new looks/alternate outfits for Hershey and Saffron. Hershey was more for story reasons (like Mighty and Ray) while Saffron was done in part to solidify her look (because she ended up being very inconsistent visually) and make her a bit more visually distinct (for one thing, to get away from having both girls on the Chaotix, as well as within the comic in general, having so much pink). But the ones for Hershey never got the chance to be used and Saffron (among others, obviously) got booted last minute.

Wait--- for story reasons... so, that means Hershey wasn't dead and Geoffrey was going to be in big BIG trouble with his wife? =D That'd have been cool.

I don't know if that's true, but if it is then that would mean Hershey was going to be used indeed. I just hope we get the plans for what would she had done.

DabigRG wrote:
RyuTheWeredragon wrote:Wait--- for story reasons... so, that means Hershey wasn't dead and Geoffrey was going to be in big BIG trouble with his wife? =D That'd have been cool.

Im still of the mind that Hershey is/was dead and that design probably would have been used to show exactly what happened to her. Plus, weren't the Sourmerca cameo's in SU 37 and StH 237( its solicit anyway) debunked anyway?

Would Ian really do that after what we saw in STH #233 with her body not being found and fool us? He better not have, and he said he had plans for her.

Also, it was said the mysterious figure was Leeta and Lyco, but maybe Ian said that just to not get in trouble but we don't know. I mean, why else would Ian do a setup in SU #37 & STH #237 if Hershey was never meant to appear in that scenario besides leading into hiding something bigger than an undercover mission in Sourmerca? As for the SU #37 legionnaire, that hasn't been conformed yet.


RyuTheWeredragon wrote:I imagined it'd be her having finished her mission and running across Sonic and getting answers. And then being rightfully ticked at ANOTHER man in her life having lied to her and used her.

That could be, but I thought I heard something that it would be bigger than that.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby Ryu The Weredragon » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:14 pm

Yeah, true. Still, chances are, she wouldn't have been happy with her husband would she?
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby NiTROACTiVE » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:17 pm

RyuTheWeredragon wrote:Yeah, true. Still, chances are, she wouldn't have been happy with her husband would she?

Yeah, but Geoffrey was manipulated into joining Ixis Naugus according to STH #233, and Geoffrey has started to regret what he has done. He would have to explain to Hershey what happened with Ixis. But if they start fighting over it, then Antoine D'Coolette would probably have to save their marriage seeing how good he was at Geoffrey's trial.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby Ryu The Weredragon » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:25 pm

I've heard of sympathy for the devil, but you're taking it to a bit of ridiculous level.

Was he tricked? Maybe at first, but he had seen enough to know better. But he went through with it anyway. So any sympathy I could have had for Geoffrey is dead and buried.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:39 pm

RyuTheWeredragon wrote:I've heard of sympathy for the devil, but you're taking it to a bit of ridiculous level.

Was he tricked? Maybe at first, but he had seen enough to know better. But he went through with it anyway. So any sympathy I could have had for Geoffrey is dead and buried.


Wow, really? You're honestly telling me you can read Sonic Universe 41-44 and STH #241 and not understand where Geoffrey was coming from? Honestly those are the first issues that made me legitimately give a crap about Geoff.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby GentlemanX » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:59 pm

I agree with SBR. Geoffrey did wrong, no doubt about that, but we definitely saw how his character was reacting to everything that was happening and his getting his priorities straight. If the old book had kept going, I imagine Geoffrey was getting setup for a sort of redemption character arc, that may or may not have included the ultimate sacrifice (seeing as that book has no future, I will believe Geoffrey was going to start rebuilding his life, no one can prove me otherwise. 8) )
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby Ryu The Weredragon » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:23 pm

Did he eventually regret it? Of course. Did I see where he's coming from? Well yeah... Did he deserve any of our sympathy, after EVERYTHING he's done? No... It was much too late for any of it. He threw away his one chance for it when he gave him the emerald.

That was his ONE chance to make things right and he blew it.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby GentlemanX » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:09 am

So he thinks he's doing the right thing, does the wrong thing, acts at first like it was the right thing, realizes he was horribly wrong and it was the wrong thing, and begins to make amends by doing the right thing... and this makes him the worst of the worst because...?

I'll admit, Geoffrey's my favorite thing to ever come out of Archie Sonic (well, technically he's tied with Enerjak, but that's really just the design, I'm not in love with Dimitri) so I may be partially bias, but that also means I'm willing to go into debate over it without giving in. The Geoffrey traitor story was not some moment that forever immortalized Geoffrey as a villain that could never be redeemed, it was a heroic character that was put into a villainous situation and we watched as he realized he was in the wrong and how he reacted to that. You're supposed to sympathize with the character because he's a good guy who didn't realize he was making a huge mistake but then comes to grips with that fact and tries to fix things.

At least, I'm assuming that's where the story was headed following Unsung Heroes and Unraveling.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby Ryu The Weredragon » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:16 am

Eh, you have your own opinion, I guess. But from what we know of Hershey, had she got to see him, she would NOT have been happy with her husband. At BEST a divorce. At worst, she'd probably take it into her own hands like she wanted to do with Drago.

Geoffrey made it clear that he had picked his ENTIRE team based on who could be the fall guy - this INCLUDED Hershey. He just didn't count on falling for her. But the fact that she was planned to be used as a fall person would alone make her, as it would anyway, livid.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby GentlemanX » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:26 am

Comparing Geoffrey to Drago is like apples and oranges. Geoffrey thought he was doing the right thing, Drago knowingly sold the Kingdom of Acorn down the river.

As for your second comment, I don't have I assume 233 on hand, when did Geoffrey say he picked his team like that? I can't find any reference to it on Mobius Encyclopedia, prompting my asking.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby FritzyBeat » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:05 am

Geoff never said anything about picking his team based on who could be the fall guy, this was instead an accusation of Antoine's made during the trial.

"You also hand-picked ze roster for your new Secret Service."
"Right... What of it?"
"Two former badnicks, and unknown agent from Angel Island... a foreign freedom fighter, and ze woman responsible for nearly killing Princess Sally. Any one of them could have been easily framed for actions against ze kingdom due to their pasts or unknown statuses!"
"Heh. Pretty devious. But knowing Valdez from my time abroad, I doubt It'd have been easy to pin anything on that Shinobi Clan spy."
"Oh? and yet he was ze only one roboticized. Convenient, huh?"
"He was a good man, and he fell while protecting the people. Don't belittle his sacrifice by blaming me!"
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby Ryu The Weredragon » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:10 am

Yes, but he didn't deny it either, which in a court of law pretty much means it's true.

His attempt to dodge it with Valdez just kinda' proves the point - there's no way he would have known Valdez was a Shinobi clan Ninja at the time. He more likely got the information after the Iron Kingdom saga. ADMITTEDLY, that bit is just speculation, but Geoffrey doesn't seem to be the type capable of outsmarting a ninja.

Regardless, you really shouldn't be ragging on me for not liking Geoffrey. His Trial kinda' highlighted why he was NOT to be liked, and his realization of what he did wrong was one of the last things that happened before the reboot. Maybe if Ian got a chance to do more with it, I'd have accepted it, but as it was when the Pendering happened, Geoffrey is a Villain.

And remember, there have been villains in comics that have been MORE deserving of being forgiven who haven't.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby FritzyBeat » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:20 am

RyuTheWeredragon wrote:Yes, but he didn't deny it either, which in a court of law pretty much means it's true.

His attempt to dodge it with Valdez just kinda' proves the point - there's no way he would have known Valdez was a Shinobi clan Ninja at the time. He more likely got the information after the Iron Kingdom saga. ADMITTEDLY, that bit is just speculation, but Geoffrey doesn't seem to be the type capable of outsmarting a ninja.

I don't know, he seemed to be PRETTY well educated in the ways of catching Shinobi Spies when he tagged an invisible Valdez with one shot waaaay back in issue 50-something (I'm too lazy to look through all my comics to find the issue XP). It was when he was gathering up his secret service for the first time, and he made it quite clear that he knew what he was doing. =P

SO, I guess when it comes right down to it, we really have to look at Geoff's reaction to Silver back in the Secret Freedom Fighters arc. He didn't seem to happy about the way things played out, so looking at him in those issues, I think its safe to assume that he never intended his companions take any sort of fall (there are also a good number of lines in the older comics showing how much he cared for the team, such as in issue 75 where he protested Hershey in running to Valdez rescue).

But again, just like you, I can only make speculations based on his various appearances in the comics, and we will most likely never know what Geoff's original intent was. But regardless, I still think the Secret Freedom arc is our best reference in getting a glimps into the inner Geoffery.
Last edited by FritzyBeat on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Thread of general Sonic-related questions

Postby Ryu The Weredragon » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:34 am

Do I think he would have attempted to atone? Yeah, his character arc was going that way - provided that he wasn't lost forever in Naugus's psyche, which seemed just as likely.

Would anyone fully accept it? Probably not. Combine what was learned at trial, to him being let off by treason by his boss (simply because he was working for him), and all his actions throughout the comic... I'd say that very few of the characters would end up accepting this. At best, he'd probably have to serve the original sentence he would have gotten.
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