Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby Razorsaw » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:01 am

I was talking to GX, not you, puar. sorry.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:20 am

Razorsaw wrote:In general, it just feels like no one is making an effort to understand Archie's position in all this. Gentleman and Maverick sit in a comfortable place of saying what's wrong about all this... but in the end, no one is suggesting a viable alternative short of simply saying that "they could have gone on without changing anything" while ignoring how incredibly difficult that has become.


Yeah but it's seems most people prefer to blame Archie (Ian and co here included) for incompetence and "allowing" Penders to take his toys and go home. It's sad but people just prefer to use an easy scapegoat rather than stop and think logically about this whole mess.

and to be honest, the association to the New 52 frustrates me incredibly. The New 52 was nothing more than a sales stunt, made by people who shove in all sorts of unfortunate implications and insult readers.


It's a Reboot so therefore "Nu52 Lolz." I'm with you I despise it when I see people call it "The New 252."

That feels incredibly disrespectful to Ian and the team's handling of all this, just from looking at it from a perspective outside the quality of the writing.


You know I've been thinking about it for a while and I think I've figured it out some people don't respect Ian or the artist's at all. I'm convinced most people just think of them as the new way to get stories featuring Ken Penders character with those pesky SEGA Canon characters getting in the way acting like this book is about them or something.

And there's that people have had an adverse reaction too Game elements showing up in comic based on a video game and it's occurred to me some people were reading only for Ken Penders characters and couldn't give two craps about Sonic at all. I'm sorry but if you don't want a comic about Sonic The Hedgehog fighting villains created for and taken from Sonic The Hedgehog in zones from Sonic The Hedgehog maybe you shouldn't be reading Sonic The Hedgehog.

I've said it before I didn't grow up with the comic I was maybe 14-15 when I started reading it so I don't know where I'd be if I had read it when it started when I was 2 but right now I can say I had no attachment to any of these characters so I can't begin to understand the pain and loss of losing a cartoon Skunk and Some Knuckles clones.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby apprentice manta » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:40 am

@ Razorsaw Don't worry, man. It's cool.

@ SonicBlueRanger I used the nickname because it was a funny coincidence of the numbering system. In general, it's handled alot better than New 52. I'll try to just call it STH 252 more often to avoid unfortunate implications.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby SurrealBrain » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:26 am

SonicBlueRanger wrote:You know I've been thinking about it for a while and I think I've figured it out some people don't respect Ian or the artist's at all. I'm convinced most people just think of them as the new way to get stories featuring Ken Penders character with those pesky SEGA Canon characters getting in the way acting like this book is about them or something.

And there's that people have had an adverse reaction too Game elements showing up in comic based on a video game and it's occurred to me some people were reading only for Ken Penders characters and couldn't give two craps about Sonic at all. I'm sorry but if you don't want a comic about Sonic The Hedgehog fighting villains created for and taken from Sonic The Hedgehog in zones from Sonic The Hedgehog maybe you shouldn't be reading Sonic The Hedgehog.

It's certainly been coming off that way. I understand why they're upset, but at the same time, I seriously can't help but agree with this, especially in light of the less-than-stellar attitudes of some people here.

Honestly, no wonder you're so cranky, SBR. It's getting more and more difficult to respect opinions when it feels like they won't do the same for you.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby Dimzjak » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:48 am

It's funny that you think Archie Sonic had been about "Sonic" for over two decades. The comic was more like "Mobius Chronicles: Featuring Sonic the Hedgehog". There's a reason why the series had a largely poor reputation among actual Sonic fans. It wasn't Sonic. At all.

In either case, some of us probably won't be reading for much longer. It's the beginning of a new era that will attract a different fanbase, and those of us who aren't interested will drop off and make room for the new blood who actually care about the Sonic franchise as a whole and not this small niche universe that was never truly Sonic to begin with.
Last edited by Dimzjak on Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby SacreBluCheese » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:50 am

I have been reading Sonic for years regularly since like issue 60 and part way through Knuckles and I got most of the issues prior pretty fast. This book has been a huge part of my life. In fact it's one of the most important parts of my life. I have all covers, trades, issues, minis, ect.

and you know what?

I am extremely happy with the reboot! What is important from the past seems intact, being Sonic and the FF the core of the book from issue 0. I don't feel robbed or cheated at all. Yes I loved Julie-Su and Geoffrey but honestly before the Naugus take over he wasn't in the book, or at least integral, for a good long time and without a Knuckles book I don't think Julie-Su got the screen time she deserved or warranted. I understand that none of the creatives had control of this but on the other hand all monstrous ongoing stories need a good house cleaning.

Remember the first reboot? Remember Crisis? DC stream lined everything and got rid of all of the unnecessary stuff and we got some great things out of it. The Charlton heroes, John Byrne era Superman, a new Justice League and new problems. It took years to re-introduce everything like the JSA, but when they did it worked and expanded the mythos. Even if things don't get reintroduced there is bound to be something new to latch onto like with Wally as the Flash that was way different and new. That was a pretty good time for DC.

Honestly stagnation is the worst thing for a comic. I love Green Lantern and the rebirth stuff but by the end of Johns run it was a little old hat. shake up can be a good thing in fact Ian getting on the book was the initial shake up that got me reading regularly again. I think as difficult as it may be presenting Ian with these problems and opportunity of the post lawsuit landscape will only help him to evolve and get better and I'm excited to see what all he does to meet the challenge. So far I'm a fan.

I think as long as some of the spirit of what came before exist things will be fine. That's the biggest problem I have with the Nu52 a lot of it takes roots in the worst parts of the 90's but the current Action, Wonder Woman, and Batman are good along with The Flash and have the spirit of something that came before. Maybe less so WW but it's good and she's still herself at heart.

Maybe we should refer to it as the post collides era or post countdown instead?
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:07 am

Dimzjak wrote:It's funny that you think Archie Sonic had been about "Sonic" for over two decades. The comic was more like "Mobius Chronicles: Featuring Sonic the Hedgehog". There's a reason why the series had a largely poor reputation among actual Sonic fans. It wasn't Sonic. At all.


Well no back in the crap days of course it wasn't Sonic since no one involved at the time gave 2 craps about the franchise.

That doesn't stop the fact that it was suppose to sell video games to kids. Justin Gabrie and Ken Penders and Scott Folup and maybe Karl Bollers just decided "Screw that" and did whatever the heck they wanted.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby GentlemanX » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:27 am

Razorsaw wrote:Your scenario doesn't sound very good or simple at all. In fact, it sounds like the equivalent of shoving the junk in your messy room into a closet and hoping it doesn't come flooding out to bury you.

I assume you're referring to the continuity included plan, right? Allow me to use a different analogy.

You're writing a paper for a class and feel you're doing a pretty good job with it, until you teacher informs you that they emailed you the wrong set of instructions and that the paper you're writing is going to be far more complicated than you originally thought. Because your teacher is at fault, you're given a brief grace period before your assignment is due, but it's likely not enough time to rewrite your original paper, which is centered around directions that are no longer applicable. You have a grace period to plan, and remember another paper coming up that you've got a rough idea of already that you feel is easier to start and finish over the grace period under the new directions. The other paper simply won't be ready by the time the assignment is due, but you know that if you have more time to work on it, you'll manage to salvage it under the new directions later.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby Tigsie » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:46 am

I'm sorry but if you don't want a comic about Sonic The Hedgehog fighting villains created for and taken from Sonic The Hedgehog in zones from Sonic The Hedgehog maybe you shouldn't be reading Sonic The Hedgehog.


Then why bother having the Freedom Fighters at all? They've never been been relevant to game continuity.

Sonic games re-invent themselves every few years. They give us new characters almost every game, and then they never touch some of them again.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:06 pm

Tigsie wrote:
I'm sorry but if you don't want a comic about Sonic The Hedgehog fighting villains created for and taken from Sonic The Hedgehog in zones from Sonic The Hedgehog maybe you shouldn't be reading Sonic The Hedgehog.


Then why bother having the Freedom Fighters at all? They've never been been relevant to game continuity.

Sonic games re-invent themselves every few years. They give us new characters almost every game, and then they never touch some of them again.


I'm not saying the book has 100% game continuity I'm saying they should represent the product they are @#$% selling. That means focusing on Sonic and not having other characters steal the spotlight.

It's not The Sally Show Featuring Sonic it's not Wonderful Adventure's of The Brotherhood of Guardians it's Sonic The Friggin Hedgehog (I guess Knuckles too since I referenced him and all)!

I'm sorry if I'm losing my cool here it's just these are very simple concepts. A Licensed property should at the very least RESEMBLE what it's based on. I can not believe I have to explain that.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby Dub » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:14 pm

Tigsie wrote:Then why bother having the Freedom Fighters at all? They've never been been relevant to game continuity.


Because they are the one mainstay that the comic has had since Day 1 above everything else that keeps the comic unique and its own thing (besides the new characters and concepts we will add and create going forward). Not Mobius, Not Penders' stuff or any other cheap derivatives -- them. And while they aren't necessary or relevant to the game stuff at all, we fought to keep them in above all else and retool them to fit the "Sonic universe" style because it felt right and it really would be a 100% total defeat if we lost them in addition to the stuff that really doesn't matter. The Sega characters will always be there - they are the ancillary branches of the Sonic franchise whether they're used currently in games or not. But in our eyes the FF's are the branches of the Archie Sonic comics. Everything else that came after Sonic #0 or #1/4 sprang from them or the Sega cast (if that makes sense). People have always cared about them more than any other set of Archie characters. Sally's popularity and ppls reaction to Mecha Sally alone proves that.

On that same note -- don't get it twisted -- I'll argue with and until I'm blue in the face that they really aren't relevant, because they aren't. If we had to drop them, so be it. We can make do with the Sega cast and build from them. But we didn't have to, so Ian and the others fought to keep them there and make them relevant because of what they stand for and because that really would hurt if they were lost for good. They stayed because one of the things people know most about the comic -- beyond it being about Sonic which is core at the end of the day -- is that the FF's were secondary/tertiary expected extras alongside. Screw everything else. Yes they're disposable too and one day (hopefully not anytime in our tenure) they might have to go, but keeping them in that context and retrofitting them to finally match the franchise they are a small part of makes sense. We can at least have that if nothing else.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby Damo » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:51 pm

Dub wrote:Dub's words taken out of context.


Gracious me, this proves a thing I was looking to prove!
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:02 pm

misspuar wrote:@ Razorsaw Don't worry, man. It's cool.

@ SonicBlueRanger I used the nickname because it was a funny coincidence of the numbering system. In general, it's handled alot better than New 52. I'll try to just call it STH 252 more often to avoid unfortunate implications.


This. I liked the name due to the coincidence behind it, and I still find it amusing. Plus, I like the product here better overall, and even then, aren't some of the New 52 books still good?

If it's really a problem for anyone, I'll stop, but I'll be sad, too. =(

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby Ryu The Weredragon » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:08 pm

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:This. I liked the name due to the coincidence behind it, and I still find it amusing. Plus, I like the product here better overall, and even then, aren't some of the New 52 books still good?


No. The ones that were were cancelled. :P

Except Batman, but it was written so it all but ignored the reboot.
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Re: Thoughts on the "New" Mobius

Postby ShadowBat20 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:23 pm

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:
misspuar wrote:@ Razorsaw Don't worry, man. It's cool.

@ SonicBlueRanger I used the nickname because it was a funny coincidence of the numbering system. In general, it's handled alot better than New 52. I'll try to just call it STH 252 more often to avoid unfortunate implications.


This. I liked the name due to the coincidence behind it, and I still find it amusing. Plus, I like the product here better overall, and even then, aren't some of the New 52 books still good?

If it's really a problem for anyone, I'll stop, but I'll be sad, too. =(

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


This sums up my feelings about the New252 nickname. I just find it fun.

And yeah, there's plenty of good books coming out of the New 52.
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