STH#257 - Spoilers * Discussion

[SonicBlueRanger]

speaking of cubot, can anyone tell me what was his accent was in this issue?

Uh...Bronx, maybe? He only gets one speech bubble so it's a bit hard to tell.

So once Lost World rolls around, think Ian will stop defaulting to "broken voice chip?" Considering that's no longer his problem, and it seems that the writers of teh games seems to put Cubot through different problems. In Colors, his voice chip was busted, in Lost World, he had one hiccup, but then the rest of the game he was bodyless

As much as I love the busted Voice Chip Gags I think for once I'm with Mav on something. It'd be nice to see different gags being done with Cubot.

[Tigsie]

SMASHING!

Seemed like an okay introductory issue to the new reboot, but I am still perplexed by the fact that their past memories play such a key role in the drama. I am wondering what the pay off is going to be, if any? The repetitiveness of it being brought up is such a major downer for me. I'm glad it is...somewhat relevant, but not like this, man. :'(

Your old wounds will heal.
One day you'll forget.
Important tasks will come up, and you won't have time to think about it doing new and exciting things.



Such a positive rhetoric, but I can't believe that everyone has a happy ending anymore. (Bad things always happen to good people who don't deserve it.) It's just very hard for me to believe after everything that has happened. Just from a personal experience standpoint, too.

I like my good share of tragedy, but I've had my cup overflow. Please don't get up to refill it. T__T

[akessel92]

SMASHING!

Seemed like an okay introductory issue to the new reboot, but I am still perplexed by the fact that their past memories play such a key role in the drama. I am wondering what the pay off is going to be, if any? The repetitiveness of it being brought up is such a major downer for me. I'm glad it is...somewhat relevant, but not like this, man. :'(

Your old wounds will heal.
One day you'll forget.
Important tasks will come up, and you won't have time to think about it doing new and exciting things.



Such a positive rhetoric, but I can't believe that everyone has a happy ending anymore. (Bad things always happen to good people who don't deserve it.) It's just very hard for me to believe after everything that has happened. Just from a personal experience standpoint, too.

I like my good share of tragedy, but I've had my cup overflow. Please don't get up to refill it. T__T

That maybe true that these characters had misfortune after another. And there were points where they could have just broke down and gave up. There were moments when they were close to throwing in the towel. But they have faced countless enemies and overwhelming odds. Though they remember all that has happened they will get through it. They are still gonna save and fix this world.

[linebyline]

This all goes back to my biggest gripe about the reboot: We have no way of knowing what is and isn't canon (whether from the games or from the pre-reboot continuity) until the comic explicitly tells us.

We're six issues into the new continuity. Leave some time for discovery, mystery, and the joy of reading the series.

You're missing my point: We could be six hundred issues into the new continuity, and still the only things confirmed to be in it will be those things confirmed to be in it. I'm not asking for an updated encyclopedia or six issues of infodump. I'm saying that neither the new continuity's game-like appearance nor its ties (via the memory subplot) to the old one actually do us any good as far as knowing what did and didn't happen in this version of reality. In this one respect, therefore, the new continuity has no advantage over a completely new property.

But since you brought it up, how much longer do you expect me to wait? I'm paid up for three more months yet. That plus the past six is long enough for a full-term pregnancy. I think it's long enough to decide whether I like the new continuity or not.

Isn't Gemrel mentionerd in this very issue? I think that means that Advanced 3 happened.

I addressed that:

On the other hand, Gemerl is confirmed to exist. So either Gemerl came into Vanilla's employ by some other means, or some parts of Advance 3 are canon to the post-reboot comic continuity, but others aren't.

We saw what Nintendo did when they gave Zelda and "official" timeline and yet we want the same for Sonic?!

Oh, don't get me started on Nintendo. Timeline shenanigans are the least of their worries right now.

No, I don't want a Sonic timeline. I don't want there to be a need for a Sonic timeline. I want a simple, straightforward, understandable continuity composed of reasonably self-contained adventures that reference each other no more or less often than is necessary to enhance the experience, without tricks or shortcuts or contradictions or painting itself into a corner and having to invent an alternate timeline where Sonic dies.

speaking of cubot, can anyone tell me what was his accent was in this issue?

I've been playing DuckTales Remastered, so I read it as Launchpad.

Make of that what you will.

[Ian Flynn]

You're missing my point: We could be six hundred issues into the new continuity, and still the only things confirmed to be in it will be those things confirmed to be in it. I'm not asking for an updated encyclopedia or six issues of infodump. I'm saying that neither the new continuity's game-like appearance nor its ties (via the memory subplot) to the old one actually do us any good as far as knowing what did and didn't happen in this version of reality. In this one respect, therefore, the new continuity has no advantage over a completely new property.

But since you brought it up, how much longer do you expect me to wait? I'm paid up for three more months yet. That plus the past six is long enough for a full-term pregnancy. I think it's long enough to decide whether I like the new continuity or not.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're asking for. All I can tell you is this:

"Countdown to Chaos" established the newest version of the cast and the tone of the world.
"Damage Control" sets up the "Shattered World Crisis" saga, which is the backdrop for the foreseeable future.
Sonic Comic Origins and elements within STH and SU will be filling in the blanks while moving things forward.

I can't tell you "how much longer" because there is no end. There is no limit. We're telling new stories while filling in the backlog of new history.

[Jazzy76]

As long as we don't have a OMIT type thing with Sonic and Sally I'm happy with the way things are going and the new continuity.

[theJcfreak]

As a note of comparison, how long did it take for the early comic to get to major plotpoints? It took years for major developments to happen. The events leading up to stuff like Endgame didn't happen overnight. That was issue #50, four years into the comic. Even previous major events like Mecha Madness (which didn't have any buildup) didn't happen until the comic was well under way with over three years under its belt.

The 'old continuity' had over 200 issues going for it. It had almost two decades to build up its backstories and worlds and mysteries. We've got a heckuva drive to go yet to figure out what's in the new world.

[SonicBlueRanger]

Just got the issue and I continue to love this reboot with every single issue.

This was some of my favorite stuff something the the big 2 have stopped focusing on heroes saving people. There's no in fighting there's just heroes behaving like heroes and as long as that sticks I welcome this reboot.

Using the plot of Unleashed to tell a big world spanning storyline is a master stroke in my honest opinion it just makes so much sense.

The Art is fantastic...save Terry Austin's inks I know broken record but his inks are so bleh. Evan's starting to get better at leaving room in her panel's for the John Workman to do his job and I can't wait for her to do more work.

All-in-all a fun issue and a great true start to The Shattered World Crisis.

[RadRed21]

As a note of comparison, how long did it take for the early comic to get to major plotpoints? It took years for major developments to happen. The events leading up to stuff like Endgame didn't happen overnight. That was issue #50, four years into the comic. Even previous major events like Mecha Madness (which didn't have any buildup) didn't happen until the comic was well under way with over three years under its belt.

The 'old continuity' had over 200 issues going for it. It had almost two decades to build up its backstories and worlds and mysteries. We've got a heckuva drive to go yet to figure out what's in the new world.

I feel that is the point of contention for those not thrilled with the reboot. Those who have been with the comic have invested 10+ years to the plot development! and it feels like we are being told to just toss that all into the garbage cuz this is how it is now. Don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued by this new world. I'm digging the character re-designs. I like the "Shattered World" plot. However, at times I think of all the plot development of the past, and to think a lot of that has to be disregarded in order to continue reading is a bit much. Only the freedom fighters and Eggman remember the old world. Any SU arcs will mostly deal with characters who have a lifetime of memories I as a reader am no longer privy to. It makes me feel disconnected from characters I have come to know. In no way will I stop reading, but I feel it's a valid point of concern as a reader who relies on plot development to care about characters.


Having said all that, this was a nice issue. Loving the freedom fighters being back in action and seeming even more formidable than ever before

[Ian Flynn]

I feel that is the point of contention for those not thrilled with the reboot. Those who have been with the comic have invested 10+ years to the plot development! and it feels like we are being told to just toss that all into the garbage cuz this is how it is now.

And I sympathize with that whole-heartedly - believe me. But this is how it has to be.

Case in point: all of Sally's growth revolving around her dealing (or not dealing) with her father, with regaining her mother, discovering she had a brother and all that those plotlines entailed. I am now in a position where I can't reference:
- Alicia
- Elias
- anything Max did during his reign

That's not just something to can write around. Folks are getting riled that I'm using general nouns for the planet instead of saying "Mobius." Imagine how hollow it would sound if Sally were fighting for the "loved ones she's lost." Which loved ones? Can't say. How were the lost? Can't say. How were they important to her? Can't say. And it's not something you can lampshade, because losing most of her family is going to affect her as a character.

Maybe some folks would've been alright with dancing around the issue in vague terms. Maybe they'd be okay with Sonic moving on from his erased parents, or Knuckles just rolling with the genocide of his people (neither of which could be specifically referenced or talked about). But not me. I think that's a disservice to the story, to the characters, and to the fans. I'm not going to lie to you for years with a false promise of a return to the old canon. I was told to make them remember during "Countdown to Chaos," and now I'm making it clear the new status quo is sticking so you all aren't left wondering.

I have no doubt folks will be saying "they should've done it this way!" from now until the end of time. And I completely understand them being disappointed and a bit hurt that we had to change things so abruptly. But please believe me when I say there were many, many long, heated discussions on how to best proceed. This was not something we did lightly, and a lot of thought and effort has been put into this.

It's not the ArchieSonic of old - but I hope the veteran fans can still feel a little comfortable with the SatAM crew still together, still doing the Freedom Fighter thing.

[akessel92]

I feel that is the point of contention for those not thrilled with the reboot. Those who have been with the comic have invested 10+ years to the plot development! and it feels like we are being told to just toss that all into the garbage cuz this is how it is now.

And I sympathize with that whole-heartedly - believe me. But this is how it has to be.

Case in point: all of Sally's growth revolving around her dealing (or not dealing) with her father, with regaining her mother, discovering she had a brother and all that those plotlines entailed. I am now in a position where I can't reference:
- Alicia
- Elias
- anything Max did during his reign

That's not just something to can write around. Folks are getting riled that I'm using general nouns for the planet instead of saying "Mobius." Imagine how hollow it would sound if Sally were fighting for the "loved ones she's lost." Which loved ones? Can't say. How were the lost? Can't say. How were they important to her? Can't say. And it's not something you can lampshade, because losing most of her family is going to affect her as a character.

Maybe some folks would've been alright with dancing around the issue in vague terms. Maybe they'd be okay with Sonic moving on from his erased parents, or Knuckles just rolling with the genocide of his people (neither of which could be specifically referenced or talked about). But not me. I think that's a disservice to the story, to the characters, and to the fans. I'm not going to lie to you for years with a false promise of a return to the old canon. I was told to make them remember during "Countdown to Chaos," and now I'm making it clear the new status quo is sticking so you all aren't left wondering.

I have no doubt folks will be saying "they should've done it this way!" from now until the end of time. And I completely understand them being disappointed and a bit hurt that we had to change things so abruptly. But please believe me when I say there were many, many long, heated discussions on how to best proceed. This was not something we did lightly, and a lot of thought and effort has been put into this.

It's not the ArchieSonic of old - but I hope the veteran fans can still feel a little comfortable with the SatAM crew still together, still doing the Freedom Fighter thing.

O.O I am at a loss of words. Though most things I would take with a shaker of salt. However, this is the truth of the matter. No matter how it hurts and salts our wounds, best thing to do is carry on.

[LiamKawa]

Just got the issue today.
"Smashing" story.
The action was pretty cool, Evan's art was amazing (except her Sally, she's a little weird-looking still), I loved the moment with Sally and Nicole, and Sonic almost gets unleashed again...
I love that we're getting up to Unleashed now. I wonder when/if Chip will show up?
Looking forward to seeing Prof. Pickle. I loved his character in Unleashed.
Wait, so if Unleashed didn't happen, but Colors did, does that mean that there are other games that didn't happen yet in the comic?

[Sparky]

Just got the issue today.
"Smashing" story.
The action was pretty cool, Evan's art was amazing (except her Sally, she's a little weird-looking still), I loved the moment with Sally and Nicole, and Sonic almost gets unleashed again...
I love that we're getting up to Unleashed now. I wonder when/if Chip will show up?
Looking forward to seeing Prof. Pickle. I loved his character in Unleashed.
Wait, so if Unleashed didn't happen, but Colors did, does that mean that there are other games that didn't happen yet in the comic?

Just Chronicles and Lost World. Because they chronologically didn't happen yet anyway if we go by the games timeline.

[LiamKawa]

Now that I think of it, Generations couldn't have happened if Unleashed didn't. But Generations, story-wise, is a direct sequel to Colors.
I guess if Generations does happen in the comics (which I doubt, maybe for the 25th Anniversary storyline), we'll have a different lead-up to Eggman's encounter with Time Eater.

[GentlemanX]

Now that I think of it, Generations couldn't have happened if Unleashed didn't. But Generations, story-wise, is a direct sequel to Colors.
I guess if Generations does happen in the comics (which I doubt, maybe for the 25th Anniversary storyline), we'll have a different lead-up to Eggman's encounter with Time Eater.

Ian has already commented on Generations.

Secondly: aside from release date, there's nothing stating Generations can't happen before Unleashed. Yes, Sonic goes to Rooftop Run - but he's also jumping through holes in time because the Time Eater blanked out everything. Chronology goes out the window at that point. Sonic didn't beat either Perfect Chaos nor the Egg Dragoon in his normal form, so there you have it - time is screwy in that game.

Until it's mentioned in the comics though, what's happened is essentially fanon, or just Word of God with regard to Ian. Personally, I'd rather Generations not have happened yet, there's a lot of potential to do something fun with that in an adaptation whereas if it already happened, nothing would really have been added to continuity. The game is all about the experience of the moment not adding something fun to play with some other time.